Stylez and Jargon

[Dynamik]

It seems since the late '90's and especially this century the lines between music genre's are getting closer and closer, and it's becoming harder to describe exactly what the hell music you might make or listen to from one day to the next....

What's your opinion on today's 'sound' and how it is described?

e.g. What's the difference between...

Jungle ..and.. Drum & Bass ?
Funk ..and.. Liquid Funk?
Garage ..and.. 2 Step?
Breakbeat ..and.. BigBeat?
Progressive House and Techno?
Darkside ..and.. Intelligent?

are they all really the same or do they have distinct qualities?

..and what ever the hell happened to "Hardcore"? back in the '80's this was Heavy Metal. hahaha

[chasey lain]

Originally posted by Dynamik
e.g. What's the difference between...

Progressive House and Techno? :crazy:

ones quality music, the others progressive house :thumbsup:

[flaunt]

Originally posted by chasey lain
ones quality music, the others progressive house :thumbsup:
lol!!

paul- as for ur hardcore question at the end, someone told me they asked some US sailors recently if they liked hardcore... they said "sure we do, especially limp bizkit!!" bwahahahah

[Dynamik]

..one man's rock is another man's metal huh?

feel the steel *air guitar* :laugh:

[RARE-ROLED]

all styles start out with a similar feel but as they grow become split up into sub-genres thats where you get petty arguments from people saying jungle and drum and bass are different.

as for the hardcore comment, it still exists in the form of that old thrash crusty squat punk crossover ditty, one of the terms being used for the guitar hardcore was Power Violence which is now also being used for some extreme elctronic driven hardcore.

[nigel]

The difference between jungle and drum and bass is that jungle doesnt exist anymore.

[Dynamik]

I think you forget that Jungle has always been - since the africans discovered drums... ;) Just because it became electronic doesnt change a thing.

[Adam Brown]

Originally posted by RARE-ROLED
one of the terms being used for the guitar hardcore was Power Violence which is now also being used for some extreme electronic driven hardcore.

Ooo let's have some names of artists, I'm liking the sound of this

[RARE-ROLED]

Originally posted by Elhornet
The difference between jungle and drum and bass is that jungle doesnt exist anymore.

seriously this has been argued many times but the fact still remains JUNGLE and DRUM AND BASS were and still are the same thing just a different name. Jungle was a media popularised term at the time of hype.

same goes for GOA TRANCE and PSY-TRANCE.

[RARE-ROLED]

Originally posted by Adam Brown


Ooo let's have some names of artists, I'm liking the sound of this

try these although good luck finding mp3s all these artists are from NCL so...

Maladroit
Pilfernators
Passenger of Shit

[pôm]

Originally posted by chasey lain
ones quality music, the others progressive house

true

[hitmonlee]

isn't jungle sort of a sub-genre of drum and bass now?
lots of dnb i describe and "jungle" same as i would describe some dnb as jump up or whatever

and i'll go into breakbeat and big beat later :)

[HERETIK]

Originally posted by RARE-ROLED


seriously this has been argued many times but the fact still remains JUNGLE and DRUM AND BASS were and still are the same thing just a different name. Jungle was a media popularised term at the time of hype.


no your wrong, they are different..

Pauls comment is also wrong, its like saying garage is dead and 2step took it over...

OF COURSE JUNGLE IS STILL ALIVE.

just no one seems to make much of it nowdays..

e.g. that intro tune on the ali g movie.. 'junglist massive, wikked wikked'
now to me, that is jungle, and modern. not dead.

[Dynamik]

bring back Disco! yeah :thumbsup: hahaha

[kranky al]

heretik that wickid wickid tune is a 1994 general levy tune- from memory titled incredible

[Dynamik]

so...


Breakbeat is formula breakbeat rythyms (often loops) stuff as early as James Brown until Hip-Hop brought it into the electronic realm in the 80's which was reborn again thru '92 style Techno.

BigBeat is souped up Breakbeat .. more emphasis on the Bass and Snares, less rolls, less hats.. in my opinion the same as the 80's hip hop, but with better drum machines and more distortion.

Jungle is african jungle rythyms. (rapid breaks, no formation) .. a good example would be Goldie's 'Temper Temper' where he uses 7/8 tempo beautifully... old Omni-Trio stuff like 'Renegade snares'

Drum and Bass is formula 4/4 style repetative breaks. Timed emphasis on a repeating snare. (if you beatmix you'll know what i mean) typically Aphrodite / Green Man type stuff.

I dunno how to describe 2 step and garage except half tempo 2/4 Drum and Bass.

'Disco' is 4/4 house without the bassdrum ;)

'House' is plain old 4/4 beats. (a.k.a the Bassdrum metronome)

'Techno' is combo House & Breakbeat chop-suey with melody rice.

'Progressive' means 'no melody'

'Intelligent' means 'non-repetative'

'Hardcore' means 'Distorted and Overdriven Bass'

'Darkside' means 'no notes above Middle-C'

'Trance' means 'elevator music'

'Funk' means 'lead Bass'

'Jazz' means 'lead Brass'

'Organic' means 'non-Synthetic'

and last and definately least...

'New-Age' is the shit your weed smokin 70's drop-out Auntie picks up at the post office.



am i close? heheh

[RARE-ROLED]

oki doki!

please explain why JUNGLE was also being labeld as DRUM AND BASS in '94 maybe even earlier im not too sure?

[nigel]

Yeah there was someone releasing on formation under the name 'Drum and Bass' as early as 1993 plus there was that tune 'drum and bass wise' around the same time by remarc on whitehouse in about 94 or so??

[Dynamik]

probably because that was around the time when (after Breakbeat turned into Jungle) Jungle was turning into Drum and Bass.

I describe it as 'Jungle Drum & Bass'.

..it's like saying 'Acid House'

Acid House = House (the foundations of the track) with Acid (analog squelchy noises)

Jungle Drum & Bass = Drum & Bass (foundations - repeating snare) with Jungle rythyms (non-primary breaks fill up the track).

works for me.. ;)

[Church Decorator]

Originally posted by Dynamik
so...


'Hardcore' means 'Distorted and Overdriven Bass'




am i close? heheh

Jungle/Drum n bass is an uninnovative, repetative, sample based and potentially commercial style which revolves around a 3 note bassline, a wonderfully generic drum loop and now exciting other elements, like sampled disco, sampled pianos, sampled trumpets. So if you have a sampler and some sample CDs (or access to Heretik's harddrive) you're set

Darkside means use the notes C-2, F#-1, F-1 for the bassline

House is boring club music also with a strong emphasis on samples, made for dancing in high heels and not too fast so all the club hoes can hold their drink and cigarette

2 Step is basically RnB gone DnB, with even simpler basslines and girly vocal samples that don't even need to correspond to the key of the bassline - just chuck em in.

Organic means old, sampled and uninventive

Intelligent means the track has been created with intelligence, rather than for a quick buck.

Unintelligent means made for a quick buck - use samples, don't be creative, just use the flavour of the month.

[hitmonlee]

love your definition of house church d.

[nigel]

Originally posted by Dynamik
probably because that was around the time when (after Breakbeat turned into Jungle) Jungle was turning into Drum and Bass.



In 1993?????
Hardcore and Jungle were still being played in the same sets back then! How could Drum and Bass have started to evolve out of Jungle before Jungle had broken away from hardcore?

Man, I fucking hate this discussion. Beleive what you beleive sounds like whatever and can be labelled as whatever. Nobody is ever going to reach a theory that everyone agrees on.

By the way, I class the RayKeith/Nookie remix of Lord of the Null Lines as Drum and Bass, and it was made in 1992! It has the same break pattern as DNB as we know it today! Alot of tunes back then did.
To me, jungle is mashed up break patterns and often comes complete with rudebwoy vocals. The only artists I can think of producing music NOW that I would call Jungle are Total Science.

Travis you can't dis out on drum and bass by saying it has a wonderfully generic drum loop without admitting that your beloved gabber is built around an equally wonderfully generic drum loop! The music you hold in such high regard evolved to its current point due to sampling. Movie samples, eerie sample ripped from everywhere, hoovers, mentasms, stabs.....all sampled! Without sampling you wouldn't have shit! Your music wouldn't exist!

[Church Decorator]

el hornet : mentasm's and stabs aren't sampled... they are from synths (eg mentasms from alpha juno). the beauty of my little cross section of hardcore is it WOULD exist if not for samples. the only samples i personally would use are from movie samples; even eerie atmospheres should be created from scratch

and can we stop using the word "gabber" already?

[nigel]

Sorry I was just looking at this mixtape with your handwriting on it that says Dj Neurotics Gabber Mixtape and I got a bit confused.

[Church Decorator]

Well times they are a changing, I am not DJ Neurotic anymore and I do not play gabber

[Scotty]

Originally posted by Dynamik
Jungle is african jungle rythyms. (rapid breaks, no formation) .. a good example would be Goldie's 'Temper Temper' where he uses 7/8 tempo beautifully... old Omni-Trio stuff like 'Renegade snares'

Drum and Bass is formula 4/4 style repetative breaks. Timed emphasis on a repeating snare. (if you beatmix you'll know what i mean) typically Aphrodite / Green Man type stuff.


Booyakasha... couldn't have said it better myself.

[Static]

I tend to pigeonhole alot as some may notice but these days the lines are very gray..

I generally say jungle is amens with distorted sine wave basslines (at half time) and all its different sub-genres (ragga, hardstep, etc.) and drum and bass is your doong csssh stuff (encompassing tech, intelli, prog, liquid funk) and the darker amen/tramen shit..

But thats just my own interpretation based on sound and not roots/influence...

Garage I picture as being split thus:
US Garage: speed garage and 4/4 UK copies
UK Garage: 4/4 rave inspired soul/rnb
2 Step: Uk garage but steppy breaks
Breakstep: 2 Step with rougher breakbeats/basslines/less soul more funk

And then breaks thus:
Nu Skool: dark shiz
Electro: electro shiz (whatever bpm its all electro)
Ragga?: I dunno... freestylers kinda ragga stuff
Funky: Zinc's stuff which is borderline breakstep/breaks
Progressive: Hybrid, BT, trancey breaks
Big Beat: yeah u know...
Theres countless more breaks genres but they can generally fall into one of those I believe....

I dunno much bout tech so cant comment..

Trance would look sumthing like this:
Uplifting/Epic: hands in the air
Progressive: more sombre mood, harder rhythms, lotsa bass, some crosses into uplifting
Tech: Techno influenced beats, crosses into all subgenres of trance (uplifting tech trance, prog tech etc.)
Psy/Goa: yep, it's still around and going strong.. crossing over into all other genres of trance even (Prog Psy?)..
Hard: All that hard stuff freestyle and that get into including nu-nrg and hard-nrg

Dunno much bout house but I can spot:
Progressive: Any choon I believe would fit into both a trance set and a house set I could pretty much call prog house...
Latin: *shakes booty*
Tribal: *has a corroboree*
Disco: If only it was dead...
Deep: all the jazzy house and just anything I would hear and go "thats deeeeep maaaan" I'd call deep house.. even sum breaky stuff that borders 2 step, garage or breaks.. (see the lines are soooooooo thin)

Once again this is my own personal view and when it comes to genre recognition its always down to your own personal view...

But still, it's all a bit far removed from the days when u had:
Drum and Bass
Jungle
House
Garage
Breaks

now they all flow together like liquid with small scenes supporting and appreciating each individual cross-genre. Providing a means for producers (us) to release whatever style they wish and still achieve recognition at the least...

Exciting times for electronic music...

[Static]

P.S. When i say "4/4" I mean "4 to the floor" as in bassdrum every beat... not 4/4 timing coz 95% of electronic music these days is 4/4 timing.. i dont hear much different but you guys might be different :]

[RARE-ROLED]

(Prog Psy?)

indeed there is

[prism]

jungle. :inlove:

[Amenbro]

What a shame.



Originally posted by Church Decorator
Well times they are a changing, I am not DJ Neurotic anymore and I do not play gabber

[one like the goose]

Rather than debate over what fits into what genre I'd rather just spend the time listening to what i find appealing and what i don't theres too much quality music to pigonhole yourself.

[richw]

Originally posted by one like the goose
Rather than debate over what fits into what genre I'd rather just spend the time listening to what i find appealing and what i don't theres too much quality music to pigonhole yourself.

Agreed! :D

:music:

Most genre names are just created by music mags.

[Dynamik]

House, Garage, Basement, Warehouse....

SOME NOIZE FOR THE GRANNYFLAT MASSIVE!


..outhouse crew?

[Static]

Originally posted by richw
Most genre names are just created by music mags.

but i dont read any music mags :confused:

[Trent C]

Static is the man of a thousand styles.

Garage is basically raw funky house with lots of vocals. it comes from US. UK picked up on it and developed it into speedgarage and then later 2step. 2step a mash up of many styles, including D&B, speedgarage, R&B and regga. So two step is realy just a type of UK garage.

[Adam Brown]

Originally posted by Church Decorator
and I do not play gabber

No more gabber? Well hey, if you're selling your records I know someone who wants them. Personally I've always loved your gabber sets, no one else plays the slower stuff...

What style are you moving into now, more techy sort of stuff, ie: Catscan, Armageddon Project, Rude Awakening?

[Church Decorator]

heh well , i was more making a point - the word "gabber" is not really relevant anymore; and many places (like perth) have totally raped this word anyways.

i certainly do love the more techno/experimental/industrial styled hardcore, the only slightly more "conventional" hardcore i listen to is the darkcore stuff that's on Enzyme records (ie Nosferatu, Ophidian etc) - and even then it's the more experimental releases that i prefer.

It's the real generic stabby partycore stuff that i really can't stand - like bass d/king matthew, neophyte, dr z-vago etc. i used to play some of these artists (not bass-d king matthew tho!), but lately they have just been pumping out shit releases, no doubt for money.

in terms of selling records, i do have a pretty big bunch of crappy ones that i would consider selling ................

[Dynamik]

Oh, you mean like DJ-Otzi :D

[Church Decorator]

hey?

[phetsta]

Originally posted by Dynamik
DJ-Otzi :D

hahahaha. what r u on about, otzi's a master......:p

[decoda]

I heard that many years ago, jungle was given a bad image by black ppl at jungle events cos they were making heaps of trouble and so forth, so the "scene" decided to change it to "Drum and bass".

thats what i heard... :confused:

[kranky al]

thats what i heard as well - but it also seemed to coincide with a time when the beats also became more linear and less tribal sounding - so who is to tell - i still listen to tunes now and classify them as more jungley or more dnb - who can tell - who even cares- regardless of which is which i still think is is a good way to classify the difference

[richw]

Originally posted by decoda
I heard that many years ago, jungle was given a bad image by black ppl at jungle events cos they were making heaps of trouble and so forth, so the "scene" decided to change it to "Drum and bass".

thats what i heard... :confused:

I heard it was a concious effort by the "The Committee"(Grooverider, Fabio, Goldie, Bukem, Doc Scott, etc NOT 4 Hero) to distinguish their sound from the definition given by Pete Tong in an Eternity interview. The Committee all decided on the direction for the music, marketing etc... allegedly. All the Committee labels (Prototype, Creative Source, 31, Good Looking) are or were through Vinyl Distribution I think...

There are lots of stories floating around about The Committee. But its the sort of topic that wasn't talked about for a fair bit. Such as when DJ Rap made a comment about them in an interview, she was then asked to leave the scene.

As the sound has moved away from being a "london 'ting" their power has reduced, but there is still probably a lot of politics.

"All Crew Muss Big Up" by Brian Belafortune (I cant remember if thats the right spelling) is an interesting book on the history.

[Ruckus1]

Originally posted by decoda
I heard that many years ago, jungle was given a bad image by black ppl at jungle events cos they were making heaps of trouble and so forth, so the "scene" decided to change it to "Drum and bass".

thats what i heard... :confused:

haha kinda what i heard... dont think its true tho, crazy brazilians :look: some of the shit i hear that goes on at brazilian jungle events is fukn insane. "Fighting" to the music, n people getting killed at their events ... :(



Try this link, pretty helpful. Not sure about some of the divisions of the genres tho.....

http://www.ishkur.com/features/music/guide.htm

dont take it as gospel tho :confused: