I am looking for a site that has information about scales/musical theory, anybody kno

[auRa]

I am looking for a site that has information about scales/musical theory, anybody know any sites ?


peace

[Static]

just sample entire melodies from 70s and 80s artists and then chuck in badly tuned samples of chords in the wrong scale....

it's all the rage..

[auRa]

got any tracks that you would recommend to sample? only if they have been used before tho of course, when i sample i usually sample my tracks at 11khz mono with my pc microphone, gives it a real original feel,

[Static]

shit yeh..

and dont forget to gain about 8000 hz +20,000db.. luvvin that for sure.. makes everything sound like an amen...

[Kwook]

http://www.outsideshore.com/primer/primer/index.html
Yeh it's jazz-based but it's not too bad a site.

I started writing such a site myself but i don't remember it being very good. It depends on whether you want to end up reading music at the end of it or what you want to get out of learning music theory.

What do you want to get out of learning music theory?

[auRa]

chekin site now thankyou,

umm being able to work melodies faster and easier, being able to put the right chords/layers to a track, just getting everything fitting and flowing more rather than being half arsed, i wouldn't mind learning how to read music either,

[Kwook]

Making melodies relates mainly to scale knowledge and riding chord structures is often a good way to come up with a good lick. The right chord to use relates to scale knowledge and wherever the melody is going.

Really it all comes down to scales, and scales aren't too hard to get yer head around if you're already musical. Scales function as a palette to choose notes from for chords and melodies, but you can easily work outside what's strictly a part of the scale for effect (like dropping the odd Bb into a song in the key of C major.)

If you want a kickarse primer on music theory one of the best resources i've come across is 'The Guitarist's Handbook' by Ralph Denver. It's guitar-oriented but it covers all the material that needs covering for a basic to intermediate grounding in music theory. Otherwise you can sit tight and wait for the quick and dirty guide to music theory i'm working on.

I'm impressed nobody's come out with the 'bah music theory is shit aphex twin never learned it and look where he is just write yer tunes' bit. Yet.

[auRa]

yah im pretyt much just looking for a scale chart that i can work from now, that site u posted before cleared up some stuff about chords i had been trying to get my head around for a while hehe :D

[Static]

I only started looking into musical theory about 1998 (about the same time I started writing trancey dnb).. before that it was all 'feeling'... just placing notes wherever they sound good at whatever pitch sounded good... and i believe thats a solid way to write melodies still...

These days I write my melodies using a combination of 'feeling' and actual theory.. Basically.. one of my main theories about music is that 'funk' is simply just any sound or rhythm that your not used to... this of course cannot be taken to extremes.. if something is too far removed from what the listener is used to then they simply won't like it. But if it is similar to what theyre used to, but slightly different.. then they will enjoy it more than something that is "generic" and sounds like everything else..

For example, take a plain dnb beat thats been used a million times (doong cssh doong cssh) and just remove a bassdrum or a snare... it'll sound "funkier"... not necessarily danceable but funkier.. it keeps you interested more.. coz your going "hmm thats different" subconsciously...

so therefore.. I prefer to start my melodies by using my old method of feeling.. i get a simple melody down without even looking at what notes i'm placing or playing on the keyboard.. then once i have sumthing reasonably ok I derive a scale from the melody... 90% of the time the melody will be "correct" according to classical theory.. whilst deriving the scale I will usually spot any errors (flats used instead of wholes etc) and correct them... the other 10% is the "funk factor".... this is when a melody sounds good but doesnt obey classical theory.. those melodies are cool and usually turn out popular.. (edit: ashanti is an example of this... there are a few scale errors in the guitar melody but if i fixed them, it just wouldnt have the same 'feel')

[Kwook]

Originally posted by Static
so therefore.. I prefer to start my melodies by using my old method of feeling.. i get a simple melody down without even looking at what notes i'm placing or playing on the keyboard.. then once i have sumthing reasonably ok I derive a scale from the melody... 90% of the time the melody will be "correct" according to classical theory.. whilst deriving the scale I will usually spot any errors (flats used instead of wholes etc) and correct them... the other 10% is the "funk factor".... this is when a melody sounds good but doesnt obey classical theory.. those melodies are cool and usually turn out popular.. (edit: ashanti is an example of this... there are a few scale errors in the guitar melody but if i fixed them, it just wouldnt have the same 'feel')

Any good book on music theory will freely admit that if something sounds good then theory be damned. It's a set of guidelines intended for analysis though, not composition, and music theory is certainly not a bunch of parameters within which you have to stay or your music will suck. It's not true and it's futile to say so.

You're quite right saying that stepping wide often leads to more interesting results, but i bet it's possible to analyse any of those 10% melodies you mention and demonstrate that it falls within established musical parameters by taking things like scale modulation into account anyway. Doesn't matter of course: something interesting is just interesting, and it's not necessary to be able to explain music with music theory to enjoy it.

I had little to no ability with melodies before i started looking into music theory. All the melodies i even struggled to come up with usually sucked. Now that i've got some conceptual knowledge about scales, i can write much stronger and better melodies than before. Handy, that.

[kranky al]

good thread more plz

[sardi]

I agree, very good thread. This is actually useful info that a lot of people may benefit from, that is not often discussed much.

Keep it up.

[invader]

It definately helps to even have a tiny amount of knowledge about music theory. I had piano lessions for two years, and that's helped me a lot. I still write crap melodies, and adher to the 'well I'll just stick that there and see what happens' philospophy, but at least I know something as well.

You can buy those little thin 'chord' books for piano, guitar and some other instruments as well. They're handy. It's like a quick reference for checking what notes are in which scales.

[auRa]

yeah i usedto play guitar, which has helped alot with getting the feel of notes. it is one thing to play a note and it is another thing to be able to feel the note. If i can't get into what im making then it usually turns out as bable,

All good producers will reach a point at which they really need to learn about musical theory or else they will be left behind. Just knowing the information is a good thing like invader said. When you know more about what your trying to create the finished result will be alot more structured, the more intelligent the more energy it will have

[Static]

Due to the popularity of this subject (and the fact people are actually talking about it instead of flaming each other)... I'll spew what I know about musical theory into a perthTunes article sometime today...

[Kwook]

Static, i'm working on some graphics right now which have lots of info about scales.

Of course the ultimate chords/scales finder for guitar and piano is still Nutchords: http://www.harmony-central.com/Software/Windows/nutcho32.html to grab it.

[Static]

I have put an article up here: http://perthtunes.wicked.dj/article.php?id=4

I'll add sum images n stuff another day...

[Kwook]

Just put something up myself at http://www.kwookyworld.com/rsg2mt/rsg2mt.rar -- best viewed with something like ACDSee in a slideshow format, i'm too lazy to do anything like a wrapper HTML system yet. :)

It's got info on keys/notes, abstract notation, intervals, scales (including a chart of both conventional and pentatonic major scales and information on how to derive minor scales from them), and a shitload of chord spellings.

[Static]

great stuff kwook!

can I use these in my article?

I'll give you acknowledgement for their use of course..

[Kwook]

http://www.kwookyworld.com/rsg2mt/rsg2mt.pdf has all of what's in that RAR file as an actual eBook in progress. There's lots more to add but it's coming along nicely i reckon.

Static you can help with the eBook if you like. :)

[Kwook]

Okay i've been working on this again today and it's up to V0.1.3 now: http://www.kwookyworld.com/rsg2mt/rsg2mt.pdf if you want to take a look. So far it covers the following:

notes and notation
scales - diatonic, pentatonic, whole tone
intervals
chords - triads, sevenths, extended, how to make your own
chord progressions - in theory and how to make them work, how to fake a melody

Feedback is appreciated.

[jamie]

had a read of statics last night, was good