How to start producing...

[imported_Teknoscape]

I would like to get some advice on how to start producing again. I haven't kept up with the software at all since the '99 (violation days).

So whats the best software to start of with?

I have had a quick look at Fruityloops and it looks ok, but have heard bad things about it??

Thanx

[Church Decorator]

i definitely recommend cubase SX and as many VST's as you can get your hands on! it's also good because it's easy to integrate with professional gear aswell, no limitations.

the interface is very straightforward, but you can still get very indepth, so it's suitable for both beginners, and professionals.

Some good VSTs are : FM7 (based on the Yamaha DX7, but with more shit!), Pro53 (based on the Korg Prophecy), Waldorf Attack (an original drum synthesiser, very good), Junglist (original synth good for kicks and leads/strings/bass)

[imported_Teknoscape]

thanks trav,

i've also heard good things about Reason?

[Morphix]

Reason 2's ok, but they have their differences.

Reason's basically just a package. You cant add VSTi's, effects etc onto it as far as I know. You're basically stuck with what it comes with.

With SX, you can use ReWire to link Reason & SX, and then in SX you can also add VST Instruments, effects etc. Then instead of sequencing and doing everything in Reason, it all gets done in SX.

Either way, if you're going to use Reason or not, i'd recommend getting SX or some sorta sequencer

[anscenic]

Originally posted by Church Decorator
Pro53 (based on the Korg Prophecy)

actually based on the prophet-5 made by sequential circuits in the 80's

http://www.vintagesynth.org/sci/p5.shtml

:inlove:

[Church Decorator]

Originally posted by anscenic
actually based on the prophet-5 made by sequential circuits in the 80's

http://www.vintagesynth.org/sci/p5.shtml

:inlove:

ah right you are anscenic :)

teknoscape : avoid reason. it's not the way to go. it's like instant noodles, fast and easy but they taste like shit.

[phetsta]

Originally posted by Church Decorator

teknoscape : avoid reason. it's not the way to go. it's like instant noodles, fast and easy but they taste like shit.


:D

[Leroy76]

Pardon the 'pun' but to say reason is like instant noodles I think is unresonable !!!

I know of some world class producers whom back reason - who's music is played on radio, charts etc.

OK - it's poppy and may not be underground, but it must be capable of quality sounds when used right !

PS - i'm no reason expert.

[jamie]

fruity is good, it just probably doesn't produce sound quality like logic or cubase would

[PKINGinOFFICE]

MY MATE SWEARS BY RE-BIRTH AND REASON. PERSONALLY I FIND THEM EASIER TO USE THEN CUBASE BUT I'M A DOPEY FUCKER SO I WOULD.

BUTS ITS THE OLD SAYING- ITS NOT THE WORKMENS TOOLS ITS THE WORK DONE WITH THEM THAT COUNTS.

I'VE HEARD TUNES MADE WITH REASON/RE-BIRTH THAT PISS ALL OVER TUNES MADE WITH CUBASE AND VICE VERSA, SO ALTHOUGH CUBASE IS UNDOUBTABLY A BETTER MUSIC PRODUCTION UNIT, I WOULD SAY THAT ITS THE END PRODUCT THAT COUNTS, NOT WHAT SYNTH YOUR USING.

[nigel]

YEAH REALLY AYE MATE WICKED

[Static]

:laugh:

[PKINGinOFFICE]

BOBBY DAZZLER- GROUSE

[PKINGinOFFICE]

in fact.... HOT DIGGITY DAWG!

TICKLED PINK

[inter-phazer]

im starting to think along those lines as well

peshay uses reason and a pc

concord dawn use fruity loops

and this aint holding back these guys at all ! if u get the result in the end then it doenst matter what it was made on .

im a cubase man myself but that is just what i learnt on and i dont know any different & really cant be fucked learning another program

[PKINGinOFFICE]

does anyone know any web sites that have a Cubase tutorial for "dopey fuckers"?

i had Cubase, Rebirth, Reason, and Fruity Loops all set up on my PC a few months back and the only one I could figure out how to use was "idiot-freindly" Fruity.

[auRa]

all the guys on bionic use buzz, KI-real even used reason for one track but didn't likeit, so went back to buzz, there tracks are good quality, i think it depends on how you master and how good you can master.. also soundcard quality makes a BIG diference if its software,

Ophidian uses Reaktor not sure wat sequencer tho, and his early tracks were done with madtracker. endymion, up until there bionic release everything was madtracker, now its hardware and cubase. i think that there creativity in tracks has gone down, anyone else think that ?


i think its just preffered work space, i can get alot more out in buzz because im usedto the interface..

[paulblackout]

Originally posted by jamie
fruity is good, it just probably doesn't produce sound quality like logic or cubase would

i used to agree, but I just made a CD of my stuff that will be sold as a mini album sort of thing, some stuff was written in Logic, and some since I switched back to FruityLoops
and I can't tell the difference in sound quality AT ALL!!!
:D

I will admit, when I was on vers 3.3 you could hear it wasnt as clear as Logic, but now with vers 3.56 it seems to be improved quality when exporting the wav file.

:devil:

maybe its to do with my newfound mastering skills as well, but I honestly dont see a problem with FruityLoops these days at all.

[Church Decorator]

Originally posted by Leroy76
Pardon the 'pun' but to say reason is like instant noodles I think is unresonable !!!

I know of some world class producers whom back reason - who's music is played on radio, charts etc.

OK - it's poppy and may not be underground, but it must be capable of quality sounds when used right !

PS - i'm no reason expert.

i just don't like the fact that it's all based on samples and loops. It's like the software version of a 'groove box', which are for people who want to be 'producers' without the hard work

sure you could use it in an original way (it does have a synth. . yes one synth), but there's nothing it can do that cubase + VST's can't do much much better...

[jamie]

Originally posted by paulblackout
i used to agree, but I just made a CD of my stuff that will be sold as a mini album sort of thing, some stuff was written in Logic, and some since I switched back to FruityLoops
and I can't tell the difference in sound quality AT ALL!!!
:D

I will admit, when I was on vers 3.3 you could hear it wasnt as clear as Logic, but now with vers 3.56 it seems to be improved quality when exporting the wav file.

:devil:

maybe its to do with my newfound mastering skills as well, but I honestly dont see a problem with FruityLoops these days at all.

oh yeah the fruity output is good, but i just listened to an unmastered fruity tune the other day, and compared it to unmastered logic and cubase tunes, and i dunno logic and cubase seemed to be a bit cleaner, but i also listened to a fruity tune which had been mastered, and it was just as good

hope that all makes sense me tired

[Static]

it doesnt matter what you use.. its how u use it....

I just believe that it's easier to get a 'clean' sound out of cubase/logic/pro tools than reason/fruityloops. Especially reason as the EQs in it suck.

[kranky al]

most of the onboard fx in fruity suck majorly - so just download other ones - most of the vst fx work in fruity so its not a prob

[paulblackout]

Originally posted by jamie
oh yeah the fruity output is good, but i just listened to an unmastered fruity tune the other day, and compared it to unmastered logic and cubase tunes, and i dunno logic and cubase seemed to be a bit cleaner, but i also listened to a fruity tune which had been mastered, and it was just as good

hope that all makes sense me tired

oh yeah, Logic and Cubase are definately cleaner, but what I think we all agree on is that Fruity these days isnt something to be sniffed at like it used to be.
:devil:
if i had the hardware, I would possibly go for Cubase SX cos it is more powerful and better quality, but I dont, so I like fruity, and it likes my old school PC.
:D

and as for all the onboard fruity FX sucking, they are pretty much all I use, as well as the onboard synths like the 3osc and simsynth live...
its how you use them :music:

[Morphix]

There's also more to a 'sequencer' than sound quality output...

[Static]

werd...

cubase has wicked audio editing capabilites as well. Most of the time I dont need to open wavelab for anything.

Add to that advanced scoring capabilites, group channels, folder channels, easy to use automation with all sorts of drawing modes and much more.. and you have a SERIOUS sequencer.. not a sensationalized software copy of the roland MC-303.

[kranky al]

Originally posted by paulblackout
oh yeah, Logic and Cubase are definately cleaner, but what I think we all agree on is that Fruity these days isnt something to be sniffed at like it used to be.
:devil:
if i had the hardware, I would possibly go for Cubase SX cos it is more powerful and better quality, but I dont, so I like fruity, and it likes my old school PC.
:D

and as for all the onboard fruity FX sucking, they are pretty much all I use, as well as the onboard synths like the 3osc and simsynth live...
its how you use them :music:

ive found that on the tail of an effected sound suck as the fruity delay there is some nasty sounds - they can be gated out but i dont bother when there is other fx on the market that do it without this sound - the fruity fx are good while you are writing the track as they use fuck all cpu compared to others - but once i mix down i ditch them and go for something else

[Church Decorator]

Originally posted by Static
werd...

cubase has wicked audio editing capabilites as well. Most of the time I dont need to open wavelab for anything.

Add to that advanced scoring capabilites, group channels, folder channels, easy to use automation with all sorts of drawing modes and much more.. and you have a SERIOUS sequencer.. not a sensationalized software copy of the roland MC-303.

another classic 'static agrees with churchy' moment!

yeah you know it bitch

[Static]

Eat my shorts.

[paulblackout]

Originally posted by Morphix
There's also more to a 'sequencer' than sound quality output...

wow, what a genius :p

all I'm saying is there is nothing I need to do to write music that FruityLoops can't handle, and that the output is totally acceptable...
I have written all but one of my current releases with it, and all my upcoming ones were written with it.
:music:

and kranky al, I have never noticed the fruity FX doing that, but then almost everything in my tracks is put thru distortion....
:laugh:

[Static]

Originally posted by paulblackout
all I'm saying is there is nothing I need to do to write music that FruityLoops can't handle, and that the output is totally acceptable...


Well yeah... for hardcore and overly distorted "breakcore" (aka Compressed White Noise).

[paulblackout]

Originally posted by Static
Well yeah... for hardcore and overly distorted "breakcore" (aka Compressed White Noise).

which seeing as that's the music I produce, and the music of mine that people worldwide are paying me for, released on labels from Holland, USA, and Australia, I dont see a problem

The amount of people that give me grief for using Fruity and cant write a decent track, or dont have any releases, or whatever really gives me the shits.
especially when they say "it doesnt matter what you use.. its how u use it...."

when I play a DJ set, I play stuff that was made on Fruity, Logic, Madtracker, Impulse Tracker, AMIGAS, and hardware studios. and every set I play, people tell me they love the music, they dont hear enough of it, and when am I playing again.

if you think I make "compressed white noise", get your ears over to my website, download a few tracks, and then get a clue
:p

oh yeah, and you like Concord Dawn, dont you????

I rest my case.

[nigel]

Fruity is good enough for any kind of production. You're tripping if you think otherwise. Enough stuff made in fruity is getting rinsed and released to proove this.

[Static]

Blackout... I didnt say u make shit music or good music.. I was simply pointing out that you dont necessarily need to have good "clean" sound in hadrcore/breakcore, right? In fact its probably better if you dont.

And No.. i dont like concord dawn... a few tunes (The Drill is pretty slammin) are ok and theyre melodies are on point but I dont like amens one bit and they seem to overuse them.

Amens are the 'compressed white noise' of drum n bass and they make me ill to the stomach when I hear them. I have left clubs and gone home because of them.

[paulblackout]

Originally posted by Static
Blackout... I didnt say u make shit music or good music.. I was simply pointing out that you dont necessarily need to have good "clean" sound in hadrcore/breakcore, right? In fact its probably better if you dont.

And No.. i dont like concord dawn... a few tunes (The Drill is pretty slammin) are ok and theyre melodies are on point but I dont like amens one bit and they seem to overuse them.

Amens are the 'compressed white noise' of drum n bass and they make me ill to the stomach when I hear them. I have left clubs and gone home because of them.

well actually, yes you do need a good "clean" sound for hardcore/breakcore. distortion is easily misused, and music isnt worth playing if it isnt of listenable quality.
in my days of playing hardcore, I often rejected or didnt buy records, no matter how good the actual track was, but merely on the basis of sound quality and production.
most of the records I had were produced in full hardware studios, and mastered professionally not at home.

The funny thing is, I checked some of the new Concord Dawn album and I didnt hear an amen.... maybe I heard the wrong tracks.
Amens are overused, and a cheap easy way to make a track "slammin". I have used an amen in a couple of tracks, but not for the noise, it was just the best break for the track. I have sat at a track for days trying to find the right break, given up, loaded an amen, and its been the one.
but I prefer to make my own breaks, sourced from other breaks or samples, processed, chopped, rearranged......

the only thing makes me ill to the stomach and makes me want to leave, is airy fairy disco/latin/la la drum n bass. atmosphere/intelligent/liquid stuff, not my style, but it has merit, but this disco thing HAS TO STOP.
:mad:
thank god you dont hear any of that shit here in Newcastle.

[Static]

yes I loathe disco as much as you. At least we can agree on sumthing ;)

As for concord dawn.. I have noticed they seem to be moving away from amens slowly and their new album may reflect this (i have yet to hear it).. everything else I have heard form them has been tramen 'slammers'. and the set one of them dropped here on friday was 90% amens as well.



compressed.... white.... noise....


yuk

[paulblackout]

Originally posted by Static
yes I loathe disco as much as you. At least we can agree on sumthing ;)

As for concord dawn.. I have noticed they seem to be moving away from amens slowly and their new album may reflect this (i have yet to hear it).. everything else I have heard form them has been tramen 'slammers'. and the set one of them dropped here on friday was 90% amens as well.



compressed.... white.... noise....


yuk

I downloaded "morning light" cos I hadn't heard it, and its the one people go on about, and I said, "wow, a bass sample and a tramen, must've taken them hours"
HAHA
i mean, its ok, but not exactly the pinnacle of programming excellence....
Evan said he got a bunch of slammin new tunes in, so obviously by slammin, he meant amen hehe. I play straight after him, and I know I dont have any amen tracks to drop (well, maybe one or two) but I know I'll be 10 times harder.

anyway, back to the point. with fruity 3.56, Wavelab, the Waves bundles, and Steinberg Magneto, you could in my opinion create any form of "dance music" and not have any quality issues.
I'll say it again, you wouldnt have the power of Cubase/Logic, but it's certainly a tool worth looking into.

[nigel]

Man I don't hate disco anything like you guys. Some of it is wicked, especially the Sonic and Silver stuff and most of Gregs new tunes. Actually some of gregs new ones are fucking hot and I've been rinsing them heaps.

Concord Dawn aren't the only ones using Fruity Loops either.

[Static]

yeh but sum of greg's new tunes are borderline "tech"..

but with a disco and liquid funk feel... dont get me wrong.. i like it heaps... i never did like the percussion used in most disco/fluff tracks (action-snare.wav)..

[nigel]

Man, you should be banned from using the term 'tech'.

[one like the goose]

Can you guys stop dissing each other out on the net and just have a good old fashioned punch up already. ;)

[Static]

Originally posted by Elhornet
Man, you should be banned from using the term 'tech'.

And you should be banned from replying to any of my posts as you seem to behold a hate/jealousy for me deep within. Get over it. I never say anything bad about you so quit it.

[Church Decorator]

Originally posted by Static
Blackout... I didnt say u make shit music or good music.. I was simply pointing out that you dont necessarily need to have good "clean" sound in hadrcore/breakcore, right? In fact its probably better if you dont.



oh well yes thats correct static! and i also put every channel through a guitar pedal too because its hardcore and thus needs to be "distorted"

(fool)

[Static]

eh.. back when I made hardcore.. we made it like real men. :p

not that it sounded any good hehehhehe.

[inter-phazer]

Originally posted by paulblackout
the only thing makes me ill to the stomach and makes me want to leave, is airy fairy disco/latin/la la drum n bass. atmosphere/intelligent/liquid stuff, not my style, but it has merit, but this disco thing HAS TO STOP.
:mad:
thank god you dont hear any of that shit here in Newcastle.


nice attitude !

static if you loathe the disco stuff so much why are u hasseling me for a cd?

[Static]

greg: your stuff is better than the shit spewing from the UK at the moment... actually its been more interesting than most UK liquid/disco stuff for a while..

only things i dont like about disco is the overused chord progression/bassline from spaced invader (you know the one), those high pitched strings on c5 or c6 that just go "weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" for the whole track, and sum of the percussion (doong csssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh dong cshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh)...

all of which I dont hear in your stuff...

[phetsta]

Originally posted by paulblackout
the only thing makes me ill to the stomach and makes me want to leave, is airy fairy disco/latin/la la drum n bass.

i usually refer to it as mardi gras drum n bass.
we work hard.....we play hard.

[Static]

yeh and if it wasnt for tunes like LK etc. we wouldnt have all the fine chicks in the dnb scene today...

Personally I love latino dnb... guitars have brought a great element to dnb it has been missing. One of these days i plan to write sum 'latino tech'.. should be interesting..

[Kriece]

What's an "Amen"????

[Static]

a breakbeat loop thats been used in about 50,000 dnb tracks (i'm not exaggerating either... i bet its close to this number)

[paulblackout]

Originally posted by inter-phazer
nice attitude !


yeah it is thanks.
:p
i dont have to like it, and I'm quite within my right to say so.

static says he doesnt like amens, I say I dont like disco
big f----n deal. people are allowed their opinions.

Static: only 50,000??? :laugh: add to that all the unreleased/unheard tracks......LOL

[nigel]

Originally posted by Static
greg: your stuff is better than the shit spewing from the UK at the moment... actually its been more interesting than most UK liquid/disco stuff for a while..

only things i dont like about disco is the overused chord progression/bassline from spaced invader (you know the one), those high pitched strings on c5 or c6 that just go "weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" for the whole track, and sum of the percussion (doong csssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh dong cshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh)...

all of which I dont hear in your stuff...

whats it called when someone rides a bike backwards? backpeddling isn't it?


giddyup backwards bike riding static! :look:

[Static]

:dontgetit

[FridgeBuzz]

The new logic 5.1 is the bomb.. havnt got it yet

timing in logic is superior to cubase, or so im told

ableton live is great, but more for sequencing/playing live, than producing


you can get a free demo on their site

I also use Peak, a sound editing program...


ps im just into music, im not a computer nerd, so dont bother replying this sucks or thats better than this,..

[phetsta]

Originally posted by Static
those high pitched strings on c5 or c6 that just go "weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" for the whole track

one of the elements about disco dnb that i must say do like is the weeeeeeeeeeee over the top of the tune. it seems to give it a bit more of a bang factor. i usually dont like disco dnb but several tunes ive heard sorta stand out from the rest. sonic n silver ones as paulnet said for instance.

and yes.....kill action-snare.wav

[Static]

Originally posted by FridgeBuzz
The new logic 5.1 is the bomb.. havnt got it yet

timing in logic is superior to cubase, or so im told

ableton live is great, but more for sequencing/playing live, than producing


you can get a free demo on their site

I also use Peak, a sound editing program...


ps im just into music, im not a computer nerd, so dont bother replying this sucks or thats better than this,..

pfft... i bet you use "Notepad" to edit your text files as well... pffftt.. your sooOOoOoOo lame dood. get a real text editor! I use this one called "TextEdit Professional SX XP 2004" and I swear My "D" letter comes out much more pronounce than in "notepad".. pfft.

[FridgeBuzz]

hahhaah :D