Science is fucking awesome

[luvvy]

It's not just Chernobyl, it's the waste it produces, and the fact that once again we abdicate our responsibilities as individuals to some centralized producer when we should be moving toward self sufficiency, and reducing the toxic load on the planet.

[Sneaky Panda]

http://www.damninteresting.com/how-b...royed-all-life

Yeh cool. And that's how our iron ore was formed.

[frogman]

It's not just Chernobyl, it's the waste it produces, and the fact that once again we abdicate our responsibilities as individuals to some centralized producer when we should be moving toward self sufficiency, and reducing the toxic load on the planet.

The waste it produces is minuscule compared to the power it generates, plus the more waste is produced, the more people are going to try and recycle it, reducing wastage even more.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_reprocessing

[Chud]

Noone bothers go to and find out that it is simply impossible for a meltdown like that to occur with modern reactors.

are humans involved? thats the bit about 'impossible' i dont buy.

Im totally cool with the waste as well. africa is huge, they need money - we could pretty easily bury it there.

[luvvy]

I'm not sure there is an awful lot you can do with nuclear waste that is going to change my mind on that one. We will have to agree to disagree.

[stevie_]

The current best model of power generation includes nuclear power. There are no really good reasons why we cant have a mix of both generation types. Combining the two would maximise the effectiveness of each of them, as you can use nuclear power for the base load, and then mix and match solar and wind for peak production (generally solar during the day and wind at night)

The only reason we dont have more widespread nuclear power is because people are scared of the nuclear boogeyman, because of shit like Chernobyl. Noone bothers go to and find out that it is simply impossible for a meltdown like that to occur with modern reactors.

A good solution, but I thought it was the waste product people were more concerned with?

As a short term solution, I guess it could be OK, but there's nothing really sustainable about Nuclear power. Eventually we'll be looking at a series of new problems associated with the waste product and its disposal. Not to mention, a nuclear reactor is pretty much 1 of the most energy intensive structures to build. Takes HUGE amount of embodied energy just to get it up and running (I've been lead to believe).

[luvvy]

http://www.wagingpeace.org/menu/issu...fact-sheet.htm

interesting reading

[frogman]

A good solution, but I thought it was the waste product people were more concerned with?

As a short term solution, I guess it could be OK, but there's nothing really sustainable about Nuclear power. Eventually we'll be looking at a series of new problems associated with the waste product and its disposal. Not to mention, a nuclear reactor is pretty much 1 of the most energy intensive structures to build. Takes HUGE amount of embodied energy just to get it up and running (I've been lead to believe).

Waste products of all shapes and sizes can be recycles, reprocessed and reused. Plus the majority of people simply dont understand radiation and how it works.

I dont really know much about how much energy it takes to build a nuclear reactor. I can tell you that the controllers required to regulate intermittent power sources like wind and to a lesser extent solar are a complete bitch and a half, are fucking expensive, and like all this, more research into them = a better product. Just like research into reprocessing nuclear waste.

Basically im saying that we dont have nuclear power because people are ignorant. Change that, and you will be fine,

I'm not sure there is an awful lot you can do with nuclear waste that is going to change my mind on that one. We will have to agree to disagree.

Can you at least point out your problems with it rather than just burying your head in the sand?

Ok, saw your next post. Gimmie a few minutes.

[frogman]

http://www.wagingpeace.org/menu/issu...fact-sheet.htm

interesting reading

Sure, its interesting. Parts of it are complete bullshit, but its interesting.

DOT POINT FORM GO GO GO

2. How It Doesn’t Work – Risks and Dangers of Nuclear Energy

Proliferation Risks

Dont really have that much to say here, other than trying to stop humans from killing each other is about as useful as wishing the sun to turn itself off. The technical knowledge required prohibits individuals from making a bomb. International pressure and MAD means no country will actually set one off against another country

Risk of Accident

blahblahblah Chernobyl power plant blah blah blah

Simply cant happen with modern western reactor design. The amount of radiation released by 3 mile island was less than the amount of radiation you receive when you eat a banana. Much much less. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_equivalent_dose

Environmental Degradation

This bit I dont really have an argument for. Land gets fucked up with you mine things. No disputing that. Just one question though. The metal you are using for the solar panels and wind turbines. Where are you gonna get that from?

Nuclear Waste

this is just bullllllshit. Also see my point on people not knowing how radiation works.

Reprocessing can reduce waste. The more we reprocess the better we get at it. The better we get at it, the more waste turns out not to be waste.


http://www.heritage.org/Research/Com...t-Why-Cant-Oui

[luvvy]

Well there can't be harm in reducing risk. What's the worst thing a solar panel can do to you? Sure as hell couldn't be used to blow up your neighbourhood.

Also, I'm perfectly capable of understanding any information regarding 'how it really works' you may care to send my way. Please go ahead and explain it to me.

Edit: read the info in the link. I still don't get why you would be OK with a smaller amount of deadly waste when you have technology that has no potential to be used in nuclear weapons. That will never make sense to me. All it takes is one religious nutcase with enough money, fervour and charisma to gather a crew of similarly deranged individuals, and bad, bad things can happen to many people. I have children, I'm a pacifist, and a vegetarian for 15 years. I just can't support something that has the potential to harm other living creatures no matter how remote. It only takes 8kg of waste to produce a bomb of similar capabilities as the one that hit Nagasaki.

Like I said. We can just agree to disagree.

[frogman]

Well there can't be harm in reducing risk. What's the worst thing a solar panel can do to you? Sure as hell couldn't be used to blow up your neighbourhood.

Also, I'm perfectly capable of understanding any information regarding 'how it really works' you may care to send my way. Please go ahead and explain it to me.

I know a guy who knows a guy whos brothers mothers sisters dogs breeder once saw this dude being crushed by a solar panel. THEREFORE ALL SOLAR PANELS ARE KILLERS. Plus, when was the last time you saw a nuclear power plant lurking on top of someones house, waiting? Huh? yeah, thats right never.

Solar is also inadequate to provide our power needs. Intermittent power sources are always going to be problematic until we improve battery technology*

The great thing about nuclear power is that its stable and always on and constant and that is what you need to provide the base load power needs. Then use renewable like solar and wind and hydro to generate the peak load. Its a happy medium that covers the majority of situations without creating immense amounts of pollution. Its our best shot as a race. Please feel free to prove me wrong.

If you want to learn more, I suggest wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioactive_waste Helped me out.


*progress is being made in this area. I know of some places that use solar power to pump water to the top of a hill during the day, and then release the water and use it to create electricity during the night. Chemical batteries are still shithouse though.

[frank]

A different side of the nuclear issue - has anyone seen Blowing in the Wind?

It's a doco about the tonnes of radioactive dust in the outback, left over from war-games with the US Army, which uses depleted uranium munitions; which makes for highly effective projectile weaponry & is a deviously sly and virtually cost-free way of disposing of nuclear waste.. just as evil (if not more so) as antipersonnel mines & cluster bombs yet it rarely gets any mainstream media coverage..

What I want to know is why the fuck our gubbermint would allow their use... Then again we have a history of allowing friendly powers to irradiate the outback

[Corteks]

*progress is being made in this area. I know of some places that use solar power to pump water to the top of a hill during the day, and then release the water and use it to create electricity during the night. Chemical batteries are still shithouse though.

I'm not entering this renewable versus Nuclear debate, however I just wanna echo your sentiment here. Batteries are fucking expensive and really not that great at the moment, short life and massive capital costs (which aren't any cheaper when you need to replace your entire battery bank) mean batteries should only be used to augment base power and help to better control base power generation (by gensets or whatevs).

[ZD]

while i'm not anti-nuclear i think it's a dead horse. isn't it estimated it'll take about 10 years to design, legislate, regulate, develop, build, test and monitor a nuclear power plant in australia? if so i don't see us getting one. plus who are we going to get to build it? all our nuclear experts are now overseas. not to mention the endless legal and political implications. nah, best to bet on renewable i think.

[Burnside]

while i'm not anti-nuclear i think it's a dead horse. isn't it estimated it'll take about 10 years to design, legislate, regulate, develop, build, test and monitor a nuclear power plant in australia? if so i don't see us getting one. plus who are we going to get to build it? all our nuclear experts are now overseas. not to mention the endless legal and political implications. nah, best to bet on renewable i think.

This, x10.

It's a waste of effort, pure and simple, compared to renewables.

Nuclear has only ever been used with MASSIVE guvmint subsidies. The infrastructure has never, and is nowhere near, been existing for it to be an independently viable industry.

You would need to spend at least as much, if not more, to get nuclear as a viable option as you would for a diversified renewables portfolio - and that wouldn't have any of the security/waste issues.

Just a hint - take a look at what sitting on top of the world's dominant energy source has done for the Middle East. Want that kind of geopolitical interest down here?

[DJ Hektik]

The current best model of power generation includes nuclear power. There are no really good reasons why we cant have a mix of both generation types.

are you fucking serious?

edit: ok i now read all the rest... you are serious. i find it unbelievable.

[Wortho]

I hear fusion technology is the future but there hasn't quite been any massive breakthroughs in regards to the technology which allows constant reactions to generate high enough power output to make it economically viable.

I did a little bit of reading on it a little while ago cause there was some article in the newspaper about a guy who designed his own reactor in America.

[HERETIK]

while i'm not anti-nuclear i think it's a dead horse. isn't it estimated it'll take about 10 years to design, legislate, regulate, develop, build, test and monitor a nuclear power plant in australia? if so i don't see us getting one. plus who are we going to get to build it? all our nuclear experts are now overseas. not to mention the endless legal and political implications. nah, best to bet on renewable i think.

30 years to get one up and functioning, supposedly.

[brooa]

I did a little bit of reading on it a little while ago cause there was some article in the newspaper about a guy who designed his own reactor in America.

yeah theres apparently a few of them! fcking awesome hobby!

random chick "what do you do for fun?"
reactor dude "your mum/sister! nah not really i build fusion generators in my garage"
random chick *takes off clothes*

[stevie_]

I hear fusion technology is the future but there hasn't quite been any massive breakthroughs in regards to the technology which allows constant reactions to generate high enough power output to make it economically viable.

I did a little bit of reading on it a little while ago cause there was some article in the newspaper about a guy who designed his own reactor in America.

Iran is (apparently) going to pour tonnes of money into nuclear fusion research.

[Corteks]

http://inhabitat.com/2010/08/03/foss...an-renewables/

[Tjunction]

I'm betting they'll develop cold fusion in a few years so all your points are moot

[Hoser]

Iran is (apparently) going to pour tonnes of money into nuclear fusion research.

*sniggers*

[vishnu]

[The Biz]

Man has damaged eye replaced with wireless camera.

[Wortho]

Sun Storm

Fucking awesome pic!

[Wortho]

http://www.news.com.au/technology/dr...-1225910768766

Dry water eh, absorbs CO2 eh... cool.

[Curare]

ahh poop, there goes another one of my jokes then

[Sneaky Panda]

Been listening to 'Naked Science' podcast from the BBC.
I rate it 5 out of 5 labcoats.

[petew]

"US astronomers say they have discovered an Earth-sized planet that they think might be habitable, orbiting a nearby star, and believe there could be many more planets like it in space."

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articl...30/3025760.htm

I saw this on the news last week, found it quite interesting....

[HERETIK]

and its only 20 light years away too! heard it on the radio a few nights ago

[Sneaky Panda]

Square Kilometre Array.
Fucking awesome.

To have something like this in W.A. would be amazing.

10 times more powerful than anything on earth. In terms of the current ability to look into space (and back in time), we are sitting at 1 on a scale of 1 to 10. 10 would give us the ability to see the big bang, or light emitted from that point in time.

The project is fucking huge, the data that would run through the system PER DAY is equivalent to the WHOLE of the internet data transmitted on EARTH (at current levels). The data going through the telescope, just the telescope, in 2020 when it could be operational will be equivalent to the internet traffic of the entire planet in 2020.

The computer system used to run the project will be the world's largest computer system. Given that things like wifi were created as a by-product of astronomy, the project is quite exciting.

[Burnside]

Square Kilometre Array.
Fucking awesome.

To have something like this in W.A. would be amazing.

10 times more powerful than anything on earth. In terms of the current ability to look into space (and back in time), we are sitting at 1 on a scale of 1 to 10. 10 would give us the ability to see the big bang, or light emitted from that point in time.

The project is fucking huge, the data that would run through the system PER DAY is equivalent to the WHOLE of the internet data transmitted on EARTH (at current levels). The data going through the telescope, just the telescope, in 2020 when it could be operational will be equivalent to the internet traffic of the entire planet in 2020.

The computer system used to run the project will be the world's largest computer system. Given that things like wifi were created as a by-product of astronomy, the project is quite exciting.

As someone whose job is basically all about the SKA, your enthusiasm is heart warming.

Fucking sarth efrikens, how do they work?

[Hoser]

As someone whose job is basically all about the SKA, your enthusiasm is heart warming.

Fucking sarth efrikens, how do they work?

Is WA gonna win it or what?

[Burnside]

Is WA gonna win it or what?

We should win it on all counts.

Fuck, we DO keep reminding people of the lower chance of RPG-wielding negroes holding infrastructure to ransom in north WA.

But Sarth Effrikka is good friends with the Dutch and they have a lot of pull over in the EU.

Politics

[Hoser]

I hope we do. Seems like it's taken aaaages to make the decision.

[Burnside]

I hope we do. Seems like it's taken aaaages to make the decision.

it will be ages yet.

and probably not as many $$$ as first expected due to EU financial issues.

[Sneaky Panda]

I read somewhere it will cost around one to one and a half billion dollars, with maintenance after completion of about 100 million dollars a year. Pretty good value for money given the potential for discovery. The giant telescope may be a step up from the giant prawn and giant banana for tourism.

[Burnside]

I read somewhere it will cost around one to one and a half billion dollars, with maintenance after completion of about 100 million dollars a year. Pretty good value for money given the potential for discovery. The giant telescope may be a step up from the giant prawn and giant banana for tourism.

considering the last thing we want is wallies with mobile phones wandering around the SKA, not in that way no.

there's geraldton trying to make a case for becoming a research/tourist hub but time will tell.

[kranky al]

rejoice humans

Solar Power Is Cheaper Than Nuclear for the First Time

Supermassive Aerogenerator Turbine is 3X More Powerful

just goes to show that once investment and research starts on something new ideas and solutions will eventuate.

this is awesome

you may not know but one fot he problens with wind turbines is breakdowns due to the forces on the bearings and the fact they struggle with lubrication - essentially there is no lubrication good enough (whale oil probably is but hey thats a whole other kettle of fish) - the fat this spins on a horizontall axis will hopefully eliminate some of these problems.

however

the biggest argument against solar and wind and other alternative supplies of energy aside from cost is is baseload generation - ie you need x amount of power minimum to power city y

if you cannot guarantee a baseload 24/7 for whatever the requirements of the time of day then you have to duplicate the alternative energy source with a conventional one.

so the next thing they need to work on is storing power so we can build a bigger power source then store the excess for a rainy day so as to speak.

[Sneaky Panda]

The area which can support life in other solar systems is apparantely called the 'goldielocks zone'. That is, it's not too hot or too cold, the temperature is just right. Made me chortle a bit.

[littlegracie]

"The Harvard Medical School has demonstrated "a dramatic reversal" in the aging process when reintroducing the enzyme telomerase into old and feeble mice. What happened was that their naturally worn out organs started to regenerate, instead of degenerating further, bringing them back to a youthful state of health."

[frank]

"The Harvard Medical School has demonstrated "a dramatic reversal" in the aging process when reintroducing the enzyme telomerase into old and feeble mice. What happened was that their naturally worn out organs started to regenerate, instead of degenerating further, bringing them back to a youthful state of health."

read the next paragraph:

Sadly, while the results of this study are hugely important, there are a couple of caveats to make: firstly, the mice in question were genetically modified to suffer from a lack of telomerase, which might have inflated the results of the tests relative to regular mice, but more importantly, an increase in telomerase in humans is "a hallmark of most human cancers."

[Sneaky Panda]

Lol

"Sadly, while the results of this study are hugely important, there are a couple of caveats to make: firstly, the mice in question were genetically modified to suffer from a lack of telomerase, which might have inflated the results of the tests relative to regular mice, but more importantly, an increase in telomerase in humans is "a hallmark of most human cancers."

[littlegracie]

i think it's still cool

[DJ Hektik]

http://gizmodo.com/5704158/

NASA has discovered a new life form—called GFAJ-1—that doesn't share the biological building blocks of anything currently living in planet Earth. It's capable of using arsenic to build its DNA, RNA, proteins, and cell membranes. This changes everything.

[Curare]

Ha, even after such a dramatic discovery Jesus Diaz still manages to wedge a TREK reference in.


Oh science.

[DJ Hektik]

oh science!
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...urrentPage=all

[Burnside]

oh science!
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...urrentPage=all

great article, all the stupids on here should read.

especially the SCIECNE experts.

[seanious]

great article, all the stupids on here should read.

especially the SCIECNE experts.

Was a good read, sending it to my science mates