english football discussion thread

[slave]

anyone see the celtic - benfica CL match?
i wish binya had actually broken browns leg instead of brown getting away scott free (pardon the pun).

rangers supporter I take it?

Don't know how you can say that, That was one of the worst challenges I have seen, straight over the ball at his leg, how it didn't break his leg I don't know. Brown is very lucky. Binya should be handed a very severe penalty.

I thing fungus (alex ferguson) has finally lost the plot with his rant after the Arsenal game about everything. Then brings up the foriegn player thing. While I think he is playing mind games due to being worried that Arsenal are still on top, he still seems beetroot face has lost it. Alot of Man Utd fans agree what he was going on about was rubbish. He forgets very quickly how much Utd are favoured at Old Trafford. I could go on forever but I won't.

0-0 draw against Slavia Prague sends us through to next round, Reading on Monday next. Go you Gunners.

[Donny]

rangers supporter I take it?

Don't know how you can say that, That was one of the worst challenges I have seen, straight over the ball at his leg, how it didn't break his leg I don't know. Brown is very lucky. Binya should be handed a very severe penalty.

I thing fungus (alex ferguson) has finally lost the plot with his rant after the Arsenal game about everything. Then brings up the foriegn player thing. While I think he is playing mind games due to being worried that Arsenal are still on top, he still seems beetroot face has lost it. Alot of Man Utd fans agree what he was going on about was rubbish. He forgets very quickly how much Utd are favoured at Old Trafford. I could go on forever but I won't.

0-0 draw against Slavia Prague sends us through to next round, Reading on Monday next. Go you Gunners.

Fergie is doing his usual mid games thing - I don't really care and besides we have our own fair share of "foreigners". A great game against Arsenal and really United should not have conceded so late in the game - We missed a glorious chance to give the Arsenal a bloody nose. Still to draw the game away at Emirates has to be counted as a good result for United.

[Donny]

Heres a book I must read - what a bloody disaster

Peter Ridsdale's lament for Leeds

This is a love story. It begins with a boy walking towards the great, gaunt floodlights of Elland Road to queue for tickets for the 1965 FA Cup final. He was alone; he nearly always watched football by himself. He becomes chairman, he takes them to within one match of a European Cup final, supporters chant his name because he is so obviously 'one of us'.

Like so much love, it corrodes, with arguments about money. The banners spit out messages of betrayal, it ends with literal dollops of spittle on his suit and the messiest imaginable break-up. This evening, at Hereford, Leeds compete in the first round of the FA Cup for the first time in their history.


In the hot seat: Peter Risdale''And how many love stories do end well?" Peter Ridsdale sighs, fingering a copy of his unsparing account of the affair, United We Fall. "I remember the first game after I'd resigned: Leeds played Charlton away and won 6-1. It was the first Saturday afternoon I had been at home in years and I hated it. It was a horrific feeling. That Christmas was the first time I had ever been at home on Boxing Day for my daughter's birthday."

If you mention Ridsdale's name, two images come to mind. One is his glib statement as he sat alongside a stone-faced Terry Venables to announce the sale of Jonathan Woodgate that Leeds had "lived the dream". He sounded like a man justifying an unrepayable credit-card statement the debt when he left stood at £78.9 million. The other is the goldfish.

It was not that there were goldfish in the boardroom, it was that they were rented. Like everything else, the fish were on tick. Could someone not have popped down to Pets R Us and bought one?
Nothing in Ridsdale's account of the fall of Leeds United carries as much anger as that reserved for Venables – there is a sense of regret about how his time with David O'Leary soured. He seems to have loathed his successor.

''Venables inherited a very good team and, rather than accept it was failing, he hung me out to dry over the sale of Jonathan Woodgate. He was told we had to sell players; it was obvious, it was palpable. And the reason we had to sell them was that he had taken us from fifth to 16th in the Premier League.
''His attitude was that it was nothing to do with him; it was all the chairman's fault. He turned round to me and said: 'Clubs like Leeds United don't go bust, they just change the chairman'.
''In what other business would you put up with that kind of language from an employee? I was not ruthless enough with him and, had I been, it would probably have saved my job and Leeds fans a lot of heartache."

As for the fish, they were rented because it ensured somebody would come and feed them when the boardroom was empty. Peter Ridsdale was a board member at Burton's before he was 40, which supposes he has something up top. But as soon as he came into football, he became in his own words 'breathtakingly naive'.

''I always thought I was a good, hard-nosed businessman until I read my book again and I thought: 'I wasn't actually'."

United We Fall abounds with examples. Early on in his chairmanship he and his counterpart at Aston Villa, Doug Ellis, confide they both know that Bolton will sell Alan Thompson for £3.5 million. Why not both offer £3.5 million, Ridsdale suggests, and let the player decide? They shake hands. Leeds offer £3.5 million, Villa bid £4.25 million. Thompson goes to the Midlands.

When Leeds sign Olivier Dacourt, the agent, Dennis Roach, tags along at David O'Leary's request, saying he will 'translate'. Dacourt's agent speaks perfect English. Roach does little more than nod. He submits a bill for £200,000 for 'translation services'. Ridsdale pays.
Ken Bates, who has overseen the most humiliating moment in Leeds' history relegation to the old Third Division, and a 15-point penalty believes they are still paying Ridsdale's bill.
''When Leeds got to the play-off final in 2006 under Ken Bates, I got no credit and nor should I have done because it was nothing to do with me," said Ridsdale. "But what is startling is that when they get relegated, the year after, it is all my fault. I suggest you examine the creditor list when they went into administration in the summer and tell me how many of those creditors were there when I was and you will find it is very, very few."

Nobody at Leeds United ever seems to have been honest with one another. They spoke in subtitles, telling everybody what they wanted to hear O'Leary, especially, appears to have been masterful at this.

The only man who appeared straight was George Graham. "That is all fair comment," Ridsdale sighed. "Funnily enough, he was the manager I inherited rather than appointed, but I had the utmost respect for him. I found him straightforward, blunt to my face and when he wanted to leave for Tottenham, he told me."

O'Leary has described Ridsdale's recollections as 'deranged'. They have fallen such a long way from the time when they would sit at the front of the team bus, the manager amused by his chairman belting out the Leeds battle hymn Marching on Together.

''Initially, he was a joy to work with," Ridsdale said. "But as he became more successful, we began to grow apart. He became more arrogant. David may have thought he was bigger than the club and it came to a point where he thought he could see me off as well. He thought he was indispensable. There are many examples of where, in the privacy of the club, he would say one thing, and in the public domain he would say another.

''When we transferred Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink he backed me to the hilt and then went to the papers and said: 'If they sell Hasselbaink, I will have to consider my position'. Amazing."

Ridsdale is adamant that O'Leary's greatest error was writing Leeds United on Trial, which was launched in January 2002 when Leeds were top of the league. Within six months, O'Leary was sacked, Leeds had missed out on the Champions League for a second successive season and the road to perdition had been joined.

''The title upset a lot of people because we had made it clear that the Bowyer-Woodgate case was not Leeds United on trial, it was two of our employees. Some of the stuff in it was frankly fiction.
''I do know that a lot of the players who read it thought it took private matters into the public domain. Did the book do damage? I don't know. But what I do know is that after it was published we went eight weeks without winning a match. And when we stopped performing on the field, everything else suddenly became a problem."

United We Fall (Macmillan, £18.99). All royalties to St Gemma's Hospice in Leeds

[Kevin]

anyone see the celtic - benfica CL match?
i wish binya had actually broken browns leg instead of brown getting away scott free (pardon the pun).

Why would you say that? Shocking. Have you ever played a game and seen someone break their leg? Is fucking sickening.

[Phar King Al]

Why would you say that? Shocking. Have you ever played a game and seen someone break their leg? Is fucking sickening.

remember a man city player simply stopping quickly from a fast sprint and snapping his calf bone - i nearly threw up.

[outremont]

Why would you say that? Shocking. Have you ever played a game and seen someone break their leg? Is fucking sickening.

aha!. so you were not sickened by roy keane on alf inge haaland ? they are almost identical incidents. please elaborate.

[Dwayne Leverock]

Heres a book I must read - what a bloody disaster

Peter Ridsdale's lament for Leeds

This is a love story. It begins with a boy walking towards the great, gaunt floodlights of Elland Road to queue for tickets for the 1965 FA Cup final. He was alone; he nearly always watched football by himself. He becomes chairman, he takes them to within one match of a European Cup final, supporters chant his name because he is so obviously 'one of us'.

Like so much love, it corrodes, with arguments about money. The banners spit out messages of betrayal, it ends with literal dollops of spittle on his suit and the messiest imaginable break-up. This evening, at Hereford, Leeds compete in the first round of the FA Cup for the first time in their history.


In the hot seat: Peter Risdale''And how many love stories do end well?" Peter Ridsdale sighs, fingering a copy of his unsparing account of the affair, United We Fall. "I remember the first game after I'd resigned: Leeds played Charlton away and won 6-1. It was the first Saturday afternoon I had been at home in years and I hated it. It was a horrific feeling. That Christmas was the first time I had ever been at home on Boxing Day for my daughter's birthday."

If you mention Ridsdale's name, two images come to mind. One is his glib statement as he sat alongside a stone-faced Terry Venables to announce the sale of Jonathan Woodgate that Leeds had "lived the dream". He sounded like a man justifying an unrepayable credit-card statement the debt when he left stood at £78.9 million. The other is the goldfish.

It was not that there were goldfish in the boardroom, it was that they were rented. Like everything else, the fish were on tick. Could someone not have popped down to Pets R Us and bought one?
Nothing in Ridsdale's account of the fall of Leeds United carries as much anger as that reserved for Venables – there is a sense of regret about how his time with David O'Leary soured. He seems to have loathed his successor.

''Venables inherited a very good team and, rather than accept it was failing, he hung me out to dry over the sale of Jonathan Woodgate. He was told we had to sell players; it was obvious, it was palpable. And the reason we had to sell them was that he had taken us from fifth to 16th in the Premier League.
''His attitude was that it was nothing to do with him; it was all the chairman's fault. He turned round to me and said: 'Clubs like Leeds United don't go bust, they just change the chairman'.
''In what other business would you put up with that kind of language from an employee? I was not ruthless enough with him and, had I been, it would probably have saved my job and Leeds fans a lot of heartache."

As for the fish, they were rented because it ensured somebody would come and feed them when the boardroom was empty. Peter Ridsdale was a board member at Burton's before he was 40, which supposes he has something up top. But as soon as he came into football, he became in his own words 'breathtakingly naive'.

''I always thought I was a good, hard-nosed businessman until I read my book again and I thought: 'I wasn't actually'."

United We Fall abounds with examples. Early on in his chairmanship he and his counterpart at Aston Villa, Doug Ellis, confide they both know that Bolton will sell Alan Thompson for £3.5 million. Why not both offer £3.5 million, Ridsdale suggests, and let the player decide? They shake hands. Leeds offer £3.5 million, Villa bid £4.25 million. Thompson goes to the Midlands.

When Leeds sign Olivier Dacourt, the agent, Dennis Roach, tags along at David O'Leary's request, saying he will 'translate'. Dacourt's agent speaks perfect English. Roach does little more than nod. He submits a bill for £200,000 for 'translation services'. Ridsdale pays.
Ken Bates, who has overseen the most humiliating moment in Leeds' history relegation to the old Third Division, and a 15-point penalty believes they are still paying Ridsdale's bill.
''When Leeds got to the play-off final in 2006 under Ken Bates, I got no credit and nor should I have done because it was nothing to do with me," said Ridsdale. "But what is startling is that when they get relegated, the year after, it is all my fault. I suggest you examine the creditor list when they went into administration in the summer and tell me how many of those creditors were there when I was and you will find it is very, very few."

Nobody at Leeds United ever seems to have been honest with one another. They spoke in subtitles, telling everybody what they wanted to hear O'Leary, especially, appears to have been masterful at this.

The only man who appeared straight was George Graham. "That is all fair comment," Ridsdale sighed. "Funnily enough, he was the manager I inherited rather than appointed, but I had the utmost respect for him. I found him straightforward, blunt to my face and when he wanted to leave for Tottenham, he told me."

O'Leary has described Ridsdale's recollections as 'deranged'. They have fallen such a long way from the time when they would sit at the front of the team bus, the manager amused by his chairman belting out the Leeds battle hymn Marching on Together.

''Initially, he was a joy to work with," Ridsdale said. "But as he became more successful, we began to grow apart. He became more arrogant. David may have thought he was bigger than the club and it came to a point where he thought he could see me off as well. He thought he was indispensable. There are many examples of where, in the privacy of the club, he would say one thing, and in the public domain he would say another.

''When we transferred Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink he backed me to the hilt and then went to the papers and said: 'If they sell Hasselbaink, I will have to consider my position'. Amazing."

Ridsdale is adamant that O'Leary's greatest error was writing Leeds United on Trial, which was launched in January 2002 when Leeds were top of the league. Within six months, O'Leary was sacked, Leeds had missed out on the Champions League for a second successive season and the road to perdition had been joined.

''The title upset a lot of people because we had made it clear that the Bowyer-Woodgate case was not Leeds United on trial, it was two of our employees. Some of the stuff in it was frankly fiction.
''I do know that a lot of the players who read it thought it took private matters into the public domain. Did the book do damage? I don't know. But what I do know is that after it was published we went eight weeks without winning a match. And when we stopped performing on the field, everything else suddenly became a problem."

United We Fall (Macmillan, £18.99). All royalties to St Gemma's Hospice in Leeds

you will find it in the fiction section.

[outremont]

you will find it in the fiction section.

or comedy.

[Kevin]

aha!. so you were not sickened by roy keane on alf inge haaland ? they are almost identical incidents. please elaborate.

How about you?

[Phar King Al]

wednesday win 5-0 and bristol get shafted six-nil

mid season turn around time is upon us?

[Kevin]

wednesday win 5-0 and bristol get shafted six-nil

mid season turn around time is upon us?

Barnsey is not a happy man. Bit of a tonking!

Few mad scored all up. West Ham score five without any decent strikers too!

[outremont]

kevin don't prove to me you are a typical one eyed man utd supporter by not responding to my question. it would simply be too easy, i'd prefer you did that after writing a paragraph...

[Kevin]

kevin don't prove to me you are a typical one eyed man utd supporter by not responding to my question. it would simply be too easy, i'd prefer you did that after writing a paragraph...

Ok. The tackle on Scott Brown was an unprovoked attack. A horrible attempt to break someones leg.

Keane's tackle on Haaland was in retaliation for Haaland's disgraceful behaviour over a number of occassions when City/Leeds and Utd clashed. Although I may have blindly backed Keane in the past (on this forum too no doubt) as I get older and wiser (hopefully) I am not sure I condone these type of incidences full stop...including Keane's on Haaland.

Although I will qualify if by saying I can understand why Keane did what he did...to a certain extent.

[outremont]

Ok. The tackle on Scott Brown was an unprovoked attack. A horrible attempt to break someones leg.

Keane's tackle on Haaland was in retaliation for Haaland's disgraceful behaviour over a number of occassions when City and Utd clashed. Although I may have blindly backed Keane in the past (on this forum too no doubt) as I get older and wiser (hopefully) I am not sure I condone these type of incidences full stop...including Keane's on Haaland.

Although I will qualify if by saying I can understand why Keane did what he did...to a certain extent.

okay but in all seriousness the binya tackle would have been provoked by brown's consistent tackling throughout the game, the full extent of which would not have been picked up by TV. i'm sure you'd understand as a player that if someone really frustrates you throughout the game, either tackling unneccessarily hard or being disrespectful and you are losing, the combination of the two can often lead to some sort of action - be it reckless or a niggle. brown isn't exactly a saint, but he didn't deserve to be on the end of something like that, nobody does, so i agree with you.

[Kevin]

okay but in all seriousness the binya tackle would have been provoked by brown's consistent tackling throughout the game, the full extent of which would not have been picked up by TV. i'm sure you'd understand as a player that if someone really frustrates you throughout the game, either tackling unneccessarily hard or being disrespectful and you are losing, the combination of the two can often lead to some sort of action - be it reckless or a niggle. brown isn't exactly a saint, but he didn't deserve to be on the end of something like that, nobody does, so i agree with you.

Perhaps...but that's an assumption you are making. Maybe he is just a dirty knacker that was getting frustrated at being outplayed?

Not that any of that justifies either Keane or the Benfica players tackles

SO yes...I think at this stage we are agreed.

[Underground_Kingdom]

well fukn cracker of a game last nite!

i actually thought blackburn played decent for the first 30mins, with samba firing a rocket shot, only to be denied by the wood work, but from there on, it was a one way alley.

with rooney injured for the next couple of weeks, saha made a decent impact in the game.

man of the match for me was obviously ronaldo, but fuck me what a ball from tevez, too set up ronaldos second.

bring on bolton away in a fortnite.

P.S) i see be4 the game, they anounced ronaldo had been selected in a world 11 team, any one know who else has been selected ?

[GoOsH]

Few mad scored all up. West Ham score five without any decent strikers too!

It's derby county, pretty close to the worst side I've ever seen in the premiership to be honest.

[Kevin]

It's derby county, pretty close to the worst side I've ever seen in the premiership to be honest.

Ha ha, pretty sure they have conceded 26 goals already...or maybe it's -26 goals diff

[Underground_Kingdom]

Ha ha, pretty sure they have conceded 26 goals already...or maybe it's -26 goals diff

they have conceeded 31, and yer -26 gd...

on another note, goal of the season so far, tim cahill's 90th min over head kick against chelski??

what a cracker!

[Dwayne Leverock]

Ok. The tackle on Scott Brown was an unprovoked attack. A horrible attempt to break someones leg.

Keane's tackle on Haaland was in retaliation for Haaland's disgraceful behaviour over a number of occassions when City and Utd clashed. Although I may have blindly backed Keane in the past (on this forum too no doubt) as I get older and wiser (hopefully) I am not sure I condone these type of incidences full stop...including Keane's on Haaland.

Although I will qualify if by saying I can understand why Keane did what he did...to a certain extent.

edit : meh

[Underground_Kingdom]

keanoooooooooooo

[Dwayne Leverock]

[Underground_Kingdom]

[slave]

while he was a good player, roy keane was a thug, the amount of red cards he got will prove that

its only utd supporters and the irish who too blind or one-eyed to see it.

[Madpup]

they have conceeded 31, and yer -26 gd...

on another note, goal of the season so far, tim cahill's 90th min over head kick against chelski??

what a cracker!

Great goal, don't know about goal of the season though, was from real close range. It is also the third goal this season scored from an overhead kick, I think Kamara from FUlham scored one and so did Scharner for Wigan.

[Underground_Kingdom]

Fergie: This is my best ever crop of players




Manchester United manager Sir Alex Ferguson believes his current crop of players are the finest he has coached in his 21 years at Old Trafford.
Ferguson's side moved three points clear at the top of the Premier League yesterday with a Cristiano Ronaldo-inspired win over on-form Blackburn.

Ronaldo struck twice to make light of the enforced absence of the injured Wayne Rooney and put daylight between United and Arsenal, who play Reading tonight, leaving Ferguson beaming at the options he has available to him.

He said: 'I believe this is the strongest squad I have ever had. So much so that I think I would be pushed to name my overall best team.

'We have young players led by Rooney and Ronaldo, now joined by the likes of Nani (Carlos) Tevez and Anderson.

'In fact, it's difficult to know when to stop when talking about our important players.'

Ferguson has enjoyed a trophy-packed career with the Red Devils, claiming nine league titles, five FA Cups, two League Cups and one Champions League success, and he fully expects his current squad to add to that impressive list.

'This is a good young team coming together. They have courage in the way they play.

'They want to win something and the signs are good. They have a great chance of doing that.'


COULD THIS BE THE YEAR FOR UNITED, 99 styles?

[outremont]

kingdom please don't desecrate this thread with man utd related diarrhea

[drastic]

Great goal, don't know about goal of the season though, was from real close range. It is also the third goal this season scored from an overhead kick, I think Kamara from FUlham scored one and so did Scharner for Wigan.

he absolutely smashed it tho. i reckon even if he was further out still would been pretty impossible to stop. great goal

[Kevin]

kingdom please don't desecrate this thread with man utd related diarrhea

Allow me instead. I thought Blackburn really broke up Utd’s play with persistent fowling and really attempted to outmuscle Utd every time a Utd player got on the ball. What I found hilarious was the Mokoena laid about 4-5 big ball and all tackles (actually some weren’t near the ball) yet when Giggs flattened him about 40 mins in he moaned big time about it.

Dunn getting his first yellow was outrageous when there were a good few tackles prior to that from Blackburn players that warranted yellows.

The tackle on Ronaldo directly before Samba’s shot smashed into the crossbar was a clear cut fowl. If that had of gone in there would have been an uproar.

On the whole though, Blackburn suffocated Utd and didn’t allow them to get any rhythm. They are a good side and their attacking players (Pedersen, Betnley (he he), Santa Cruz and McCarthy) mean they should do well this year.

I thought Hargreaves was good for Utd and I love the way he snaps into tackles. Anderson was very impressive and strong on the ball. 19! Can’t wait til he matures. Future is looking good. Just need Saha to get a good run under his belt and hopefully can get us through the loss of Rooney, Scholes, Neville, Park etc.

[Dwayne Leverock]

yeh this has probably been the best one so far


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iN7vIE7YuXQ

[Underground_Kingdom]

kingdom please don't desecrate this thread with man utd related diarrhea

why do they call wenger hitler?
because he cant win in europe either.

What is the difference between Arsenal and a cup of tea?
A. The tea stays in the cup longer!

[outremont]

of course it's okay to write opinions about man utd games
just don't link stuff from other sites about facist ferguson or some other incredibly biased news source

[Kevin]

of course it's okay to write opinions about man utd games
just don't link stuff from other sites about facist ferguson or some other incredibly biased news source

Thank you sir

[swarbs]

tis an exciting season

[slave]

why do they call wenger hitler?
because he cant win in europe either.

What is the difference between Arsenal and a cup of tea?
A. The tea stays in the cup longer!

let me guess you started going for utd in 99 or mid nineties?

typical bandwagon supporter

[Underground_Kingdom]

let me guess you started going for utd in 99 or mid nineties?

typical bandwagon supporter

wow wat a fukn typical statement, everyone has 2 state that about utd supporters these days, actually been in australia for 10years, and was born in a town called burnley, which is u had a fukn clue is 30mins out of manchester!

so lay off and die, i proudly have a manutd tatoo on my heart!

united till i die u tool

[Birt]

wow wat a fukn typical statement, everyone has 2 state that about utd supporters these days, actually been in australia for 10years, and was born in a town called burnley, which is u had a fukn clue is 30mins out of manchester!

so lay off and die, i proudly have a manutd tatoo on my heart!

united till i die u tool

Just out of interest why do you not support your home team Burnley then?

Is it because you would rather support a popular successful team that is Manchester United?

[Kev]

Anyone know a pub where they are showing the Scotland v Italy game (in Perth) apart from Rosies ?

[slave]

Just out of interest why do you not support your home team Burnley then?

Is it because you would rather support a popular successful team that is Manchester United?

ha! beat me too it.

Whats wrong with Burnley underground kingdom????

[Underground_Kingdom]

ha! beat me too it.

Whats wrong with Burnley underground kingdom????

nothing is wrong with burnley, been grown supporting united, my dad lives and breathes united, united is in my blood and end of discussion u anti united load of bollocks!

[Phar King Al]

The Poms fate is back in their hands after the ruskies inexplicable loss to the israelites.

[GoOsH]

The Poms fate is back in their hands after the ruskies inexplicable loss to the israelites.

not that inexplicable, israel are awesome at home, lost twice in 18 matches there.

[Phar King Al]

not that inexplicable, israel are awesome at home, lost twice in 18 matches there.

how many wins against top opposition though?

[GoOsH]

how many wins against top opposition though?

sorry twice in the last 25 I should say. just in this qulifying period they've had croatia england russia and macedonia, it's a pretty strong record.

[Phar King Al]

sorry twice in the last 25 I should say. just in this qulifying period they've had croatia england russia and macedonia, it's a pretty strong record.

hmm that maccabee spirit

[slave]

the poor scots hey, so close, they played pretty well against italy..

some baffling decisions, especially the one that resulted in the second goal, rubbish decision

[fredd]

why do they call wenger hitler?

because he cant win in europe either.

What is the difference between Arsenal and a cup of tea?
A. The tea stays in the cup longer!

hehehe i lolled. jerk.

but things are certainly looking up, im happy to laugh at us atm



Only the 'Invincibles' eclipse Wenger's new generation

Arsenal's start to the current season bears healthy comparison with each of the Club's last six title campaigns - with the honourable exception of the 'Invincibles'.

Only Arsène Wenger's history makers of 2003/04 picked up more points in their first dozen games than the Frenchman's latest crop, and even then only one win and one goal separates the sides.
It's also worth noting that this season the Gunners have had to play two further European fixtures, and one more domestic cup fixture, compared to the 'Invincibles', yet still they remain unbeaten.
In their unbeaten league season, Wenger's charges had lost two Champions League games by this stage - against Inter Milan and Dynamo Kiev - and required a penalty shoot-out to dispose of Rotherham in the League Cup.
Wenger's first title season in 1997/98 is the only other year during his reign which has seen Arsenal remain unbeaten after 12 games. However, that side drew half of those Premier League games. Interestingly goals both for and against are the same now as then - 27 scored, 10 conceded.
Prior to Wenger's appointment in 1996, the last three title triumphs had come in 1970/71, 1988/89 and 1990/91. In the double year of 1970/71 Bertie Mee's team had lost twice, drawn four and had an inferior goal difference to that of the current team.
Similarly in 1988/89, with George Graham at the helm, Arsenal lost twice in their opening dozen games. In that year the Club were not in Europe but had played four domestic cup fixtures by this point. Indeed, the campaign which culminated with that famous night at Anfield is the only one in which Arsenal started at longer odds with the bookmakers. The Gunners were 16/1 for the title in August 1988; they were available at 12s 19 years later.
Two years after Anfield '89, the league trophy returned to North London thanks in part to a very strong start. After 12 games Arsenal had won eight and drawn four, and although they had scored only 20 goals they had conceded just five. The season would continue in the same vein. The Gunners lost only once, at Chelsea in February, and set a record of 23 clean sheets in a season..

A comparison of start in years that Arsenal won the title

Season | Played | Won | Lost | Drawn | For | Against

1970/7112 6 2 4 23 13
1988/8912 8 2 2 30 14
1990/9112 8 0 4 20 5
1997/9812 6 0 6 27 10
2001/0212 5 2 5 25 14
2003/0412 10 0 2 28 10
2007/0812 9 0 3 27 10
[ Monday, November 19, 2007]
pffft 3 points clear. my ass matthew.

[Kevin]

not that inexplicable, israel are awesome at home, lost twice in 18 matches there.

Yeah...they were unbeaten home and away in failing to qualify for last world cup in Ireland, France and Russia's group. Very nuggety side

[Dwayne Leverock]

fredd....teknoscapes version of gordon mcqueen is back.

[Donny]

Yeah...they were unbeaten home and away in failing to qualify for last world cup in Ireland, France and Russia's group. Very nuggety side

Both of those draws Ireland had with Israel stopped us qualifying. We were ahead in both games and should have won at least one if not both. Lost a goal in injury time at Israel after leading for the whole match and lost a 2 goal lead at home. Just converting one of those draws to a win would have made the difference and we'd have qualified. Amazing how close we were then unlike the current shambles.